Over the last three weeks on the program we’ve been chatting about eliminating a lot of the pain that we experience in our lives. God wants us to grow through our trials and when we don’t we’re immature in a certain area of our lives and that immaturity ends up causing us a lot of grief, a lot of pain.

But the problem is we’re all different. I’m perhaps immature in this area of my life, for you it’s another area entirely. And so rather than talking in vague generalities last week I invited Keith Henry onto the program to get down to the specifics for each of the personality types that God talks about in Romans chapter 12, verses 4 to 8.

Now Keith’s done a lot of research on this whole subject of personality types and in fact he and I have written a book together called ‘My Personality GPS’. Last week Keith told us about the immaturities in the lives of achievers, encouragers, teachers and carers and how those people could overcome them.

And today we’re going to continue with that and have a look at the personality type of the Giver. Keith, welcome again to the program this week.

Keith: Hello Berni.

Berni: Now we’re all different aren’t we? So I guess it makes sense that each of us have different personality types and we’re going to have some different Achilles heel of immaturity to contend with.

Keith: Certainly and they are all different. At the nine types we’re looking at we’ve got nine different types of pain and nine different types of looking at the world.

Berni: And I guess as I’ve listened to you last week on some of the personality types we looked at I was really struck on how I thought, ‘No, that’s not me, I don’t suffer with that, I have a different problem entirely’.

Keith: Yes we all do.

Berni: Well today we’re looking at the Giver, tell me how does a person know if they happen to be a Giver, that personality type?

Keith: Well they come from the heart. We looked at the Carer last week and they came from the heart.

Berni: What do you mean they come from the heart? What does that mean?

Keith: They come from the emotional side, the empathy and caring side but the difference with the Carer that we looked at last week was, the Carer really concentrates on their feelings and are sensitive to other people’s feelings. Today we’re looking at the Giver who comes from the heart but they’re sensitive to the help that people need.

They can sense that people need help and they just have a natural way of getting stuck in and doing it while the rest of us sit there not knowing what’s going on, they’re actually doing something to help the person.

Berni: A friend of ours by the name of Carol she’s a Giver and I remember we were moving house one day. You know when you’re moving house like 5 o’clock comes in the afternoon, you’re exhausted and you think, “What are we going to do for dinner?” The doorbell rings, there’s Carol with a roast chicken and some salad and some bread rolls.

Keith: Don’t we need the Givers?

Berni: My wife Jacqui and I looked at each other and thought “Ah, this is just fantastic”.

Keith: Yes and they know that, see they have a sense to know that where say the Encourager is off at the football match enjoying themselves but the Givers focused on you.

Berni: And I guess that’s why we need them.

Keith: We do.

Berni: But the Giver, I guess like every other personality type we’ve looked at, I guess the Giver has a downside or two in their particular make up. Tell us about those.

Keith: Well because they are sensitive, they come from the emotional side, they want people to appreciate what they do for them. If they’re not appreciated they get very upset. It might just be something that boils up inside them, it can come out in different ways, it’s not just an anger way but it also can come out in terms of trying to control events, control the other person, manipulate things. So it can come out in being bossy.

Berni: Are these people that often get accused of being control freaks? Is this them?

Keith: No it isn’t them, they don’t want to be control freaks. They really just want to get back in equilibrium again, they want to and they don’t know how to do it so they fall down into this area.

Berni: And what does that feel like for them?

Keith: It’s a dark area for them, they don’t want to be there and the people that they’re trying to control this is so different from the way that they’ve been made to be. They’re out there helping you and all of a sudden they’re out bringing you arguments and confrontation and bossing you around, this is not natural for them, they don’t want to be there. So it’s good for them to recognise when this situation occurs.

Berni: Yeah, I guess when you have a natural weakness and you fall into it the important thing is to say, ‘Look, I know about this, this is my natural weakness. This is my natural place of immaturity and I’ve arrived at that place’.

Keith: That’s right. And then the next thing of course is what do you do about that? You have to recognise it first as you said and then you can work out what to do with it.

Berni: So we have a Giver and they’re in that place, they feel unappreciated by their family. I guess a lot of women are Givers, would that be a fair thing to say?

Keith: Yes, women and mothers naturally go there so a lot of people recognise, women and mothers recognise themselves as a giver but they may not be because as a woman and a mother, especially mother, you have to give a lot.

Berni: You’re married to a Giver and I’m married to a Giver.

Keith: Yes we are.

Berni: So we kind of understand this. Let’s say they find themselves in that dark place where they feel unappreciated by their family and they feel unappreciated by people at work, what do they do about it?

Keith: Well it’s hard to just go and confront somebody and say please appreciate me. So the way out of it is really, they focus on other people but they actually have to go where they don’t expect anything from the other person that they’re helping. So a loving kindness, they actually have to do things in love and not expect anything from anybody. So it’s a kindness that they have to give, like in the Bible it says if a person asks for something like a shirt give them your coat, right? And that’s the extra step that they have to go.

Berni: The extra mile type of kindness.

Keith: The extra mile, that is so unnatural for us but that will bring them out because if we’re having an argument but I don’t take on that confrontation but I will be kind to you, you’ll soften.

Berni: Absolutely.

Keith: Kindness just takes over the world, everybody wants somebody to be kind to them.

Berni: Yeah, absolutely. Isn’t that what Ringo Star said on his 70th birthday, it was the great insight that he had for his life.

Keith: It is. I was blown away when I saw that on TV. He said, “One thing I’ve learnt out of my life is to be kind”. He said it from one point of view, he said, “because if I’m kind to people I feel so good”.

Berni: And isn’t that what we’re talking about here.

Keith: It is.

Berni: That in terms of there being a healing, when I feel unappreciated as a Giver, if that’s where I am, if I then just go and give more with a good heart, with a heart that says there are no strings attached to my giving, no strings attached because that can be the down fall of the giver, can’t it? That there are kind of strings attached, I’ll give if you appreciate me.

Keith: That’s right.

Berni: But you’re saying the mature and what a huge step of maturity this is.

Keith: Oh it is.

Berni: It’s huge and so unnatural to say they don’t appreciate me but you know what I’m better than that, I will give anyway without strings attached.

Keith: I’m going to bless them no matter what. But then that’s what will turn the other person and that’s what will turn your life around. We talk about being a button that you push and its change in habit. Get to know the button that you have to push for your personality.

Berni: And the button here for the giver is kindness.

Keith: Loving kindness.

Berni: Amen. Isn’t that powerful and you’re right, if I’m acting badly, if I’m angry, if I’m unappreciative and someone does a kind act to me it’s kind of hard to argue with that isn’t it? It’s hard not to soften when someone gives you something you don’t deserve.

Keith: Yes it is and then if they do it again and again you just break down.

Berni: Powerful stuff. Keith thank you so much for that.

Keith: Pleasure Berni.

This week on the program we’re continuing our look at how to eliminate the largely self inflicted pain that comes from our own immaturity. Some pain in life is absolutely inevitable but much of the pain we experience comes from our own immaturity in certain parts of our lives.

And because we’re each different we’re going to look at that immaturity and how to overcome it for each of the personality types that God talks about in Romans chapter 12. And today I’ve got Keith Henry on the program again and we’re looking at the practical server.

Keith’s done a huge amount of research in this area of personality types as strengths and weaknesses and that’s why he’s going to be joining me today. Now before we talk to Keith let’s recap Romans chapter 12 on the personality types:

We each have different gifts according to the grace given to us. Prophecy in proportion to faith, ministry in ministering, the teacher in teaching, the exalter in exaltation, the giver in generosity, the leader in diligence, the compassionate in cheerfulness.

Now those seven gifts are generally referred to as motivational gifts, who we are or as perhaps we’d call it today, our personality types. So Keith welcome again to the program.

Keith: Hello Berni.

Berni: Now listen tell me, I don’t see Practical Server on that list. Where do we get the Practical Server from? How does that fit in with what Gods saying in Romans chapter 12?

Keith: Well there’s two different types of Servers. There’s what we call the Practical Server which is very good at doing things behind the scenes. They might be setting up the tables, they might be doing the audio visual or the computer work, whatever it is but the practical person.

Then there’s the Theoretical Server. The Theoretical Server’s all in their mind. They’re the knowledge, the wisdom people who can tell you in great depth on any one subject.

Berni: So is this, Romans chapter 12, ministry in ministering, is that what we’re talking about?

Keith: Yes we are.

Berni: Alright so Practical Servers, how does a person know if they’re a Practical Server? I know I’m not because I’m not practical but how does a person know if they’re a Practical Server?

Keith: Well they come from the mind.

Berni: What does that mean?

Keith: That means that they’re thinkers and they know that their mind is so active. We can’t even appreciate that. See when you come from different personality you can’t appreciate what they’re going through. They’re mind never turns off and sometimes they’ve just got to get away to try and still their minds.

Berni: So these people are thinkers as opposed to say people who come more through their emotions.

Keith: Exactly.

Berni: So they’re mind people. So the practical server, tell us about this person.

Keith: Well what they’re good at is they’re great team support member’s right? And so they’re very good at doing things within a team and they love being part of a team, they get their security through the team. So they actually have a lot of anxiety and they find security through working in a support group.

Berni: But they’re doing practical things right?

Keith: They’re doing practical things, it could be a trade’s person, it could be a computer person but sometimes there’s impractical, practical people. I know one who’s very good at marketing, putting all the bits and pieces of a time schedule, release of a product or something like that together. They get all the details, that’s what they are, they’re detail people. They analyse and pull apart, all the things that you and I would hate to do.

Berni: And I guess we need those sorts of people.

Keith: Well they’re the factory workers in terms of making it all happen, they’re the ones that do it, they’re the doers.

Berni: I mean, I know as a leader I like to race off and do things but if I don’t have some people with me who look at the details and analyse the detail it’s very easy to come unstuck.

Keith: Oh yes.

Berni: It might be a good idea but God’s into detail and the devil’s in the detail.

Keith: Yes they love being in the detail. They will research and analyse, get all the brochures, look at all the websites, work everything out.

Berni: Okay. We have a woman in the ministry of Christianityworks and her name is Joy and she’s responsible for distributing these radio programs all around the world to all the different radio stations and the amount of detail of different servers and stations, unbelievable what she has to do, I couldn’t do her job.

Keith: No, well they won’t at work let me do any stock taking because I always get the wrong amount. (Both laugh)

Berni: Oh dear, it’s tragic isn’t it?

Keith: It is.

Berni: Alright but these Practical Servers, as much as we need them and as well as they do what they do, they too have one or two natural downsides or areas of immaturity in their make up don’t they?

Keith: They do Berni, because they’re so loyal and supportive and faithful if anybody accuses them within that realm of not being loyal or faithful or doing something wrong, it just pulls them apart because this is their niche right? You’ve just accused them and they get angry and then they get critical and they go away and sulk about it. Sarcasm can come out.

Berni: I imagine they could be quite destructive in a team.

Keith: If anybody attacks them they sort of go into their shell or they’ll attack back with words but they usually just go into a shell but they’re destroyed because that’s their life. I’ve given my everything to this group and now you’re attacking me.

Berni: Okay. And of course we do get attacked from time to time, that’s life. It’s not all sweetness and light is it?

Keith: No it isn’t and so they have to be able to handle that and also they, remember I said earlier they come from anxiety and worry right? They’re the Murphy’s Law people, if it’s going to go wrong it will go wrong.

Berni: That’s they’re Achilles heel if you will. What’s the upside of their personality? What’s they’re strong point? How can they get over this?

Keith: Right, what they have to do is to learn to relax and this is a hard thing to do but anxiety pulls them down because of their doubt. What they have to do is have faith, believe in themselves. They have to develop that belief in themselves not looking to the group for support and saying its okay to do something or feel some way. What they have to do is have their own support within themselves and make a decision because they don’t make decisions.

Berni: That must be a huge step because I guess someone who’s into detail can see all the risks.

Keith: Yes they do.

Berni: And therefore anxiety is a natural bedfellow with risk and then you get into self doubt, can I do this? Can I handle this? It’s too much. So what I’ll do is work harder, I’ll pedal harder and harder and harder and so I’m in this vicious circle of anxiety and self doubt.

Keith: What you just said about pedalling harder is very true because when they’re in the bottom part of their personality they become workaholics, they scatter themselves everywhere, doing everything and making a mess of everything.

Berni: Okay, how do they …..

Keith: The button to push is to go to a peaceful area where they just make a decision, be peaceful about it, they’ve got to control their mind, so turn off those thoughts.

Berni: It’s discipline.

Keith: Yes it is, it’s a lot of discipline.

Berni: And that won’t be easy to unlearn after years of doing that. So you really do need God in this.

Keith: You do, yes. It’s transformation and it’s changing the habit, realising it takes so long. That’s where you also want somebody beside you who’s good at making decisions. Let’s train you how to make a decision.

Berni: Yeah, see that’s foreign to me, totally foreign to me and that’s why we need to know how different we are.

Keith: Yes.

Berni: I mean for the person that’s in that place its devastating and the bottom area is doubt and anxiety but their area of maturity is, I guess, taking the decision to step up from that, to exercise discipline and to control that. That’s great stuff, thank you so much for that Keith.

Keith: Pleasure Berni.

Well over these last couple of weeks I’ve been joined by my good friend on the program, Keith Henry. And what we’ve been talking about are the particular weaknesses and immaturities of each of the personality types that God talks about in Romans chapter 12, verses 4 to 8 in the New Testament.

And that’s why Keith is here. Keith’s spent the last twenty years or so researching these personality types and not only has he been helping us over these last couple of weeks to identify the particular Achilles’ heel of each of those but he’s been sharing with us how each of those personality types can overcome those immaturities.

And that’s important because as we’ve seen in this series immaturity is the source of a huge amount of the pain that you and I experience in our lives. And today we’re concluding our time with Keith by looking at the personality type of the leader.

Now a person with a personality type of the Leader, just like the rest of us, well they have an up side to their character but they also have some areas in their natural make up where they’re more prone to be immature. Some areas, well if they don’t deal with these issues, are going to cause them pain time and time and time again.

But the fantastic thing about an immaturity is that it has a flip side and that flip side is called maturity. Keith, thanks so much for joining us today again.

Keith: Pleasure Berni.

Berni: Okay how does a person know if they’re a Leader?

Keith: Well they don’t call them Leaders for nothing. Leaders are action people, they like to be out front, they like to be doing things, getting things done, they’re quick at making decisions, they don’t procrastinate. And so they like to control things and be in charge.

Berni: Okay. I relate to that because that’s my personality type. So we’re about to talk about the down side of the leader personality type, now you want to be careful about what you say today otherwise I might just flick the switch and turn you off. (Both laugh)

Before we go to those I guess we do need Leaders because otherwise we’re just a gaggle of people and it’s hard to achieve anything, we need somebody to pull it together and drive it forward to achieve.

Keith: Yeah and they do drive which is really good but they’ve got to be mature Leaders, we’re talking about immaturity.

Berni: So what’s the key natural down side or two in their make up? What’s the particular area of immaturity?

Keith: Well they do like to control things but if they’re threatened where other people want to control things they get very angry. And as they get angry they will try and confront the issue but if that doesn’t work they really do want to take action against that person.

Berni: Well I guess in, before I became a Christian fifteen years ago what I used to do I’d just roll over the top of people. I mean I know that I’m strong. I don’t say that arrogantly, I just know that I’m strong and I’ve made grown men cry and not felt, not lost any sleep over it ’cause I just knew I could beat them.

Keith: Yes they know that, they’re strong willed, these are the strongest people and they’ve been given that strong will for a very good reason but where they use it selfishly, to dominate others, to roll others, it is brutal, absolutely brutal.

Berni: Yeah I look back on those years now and it’s really interesting. When I became a Christian, I mean it’s a journey for me changing from immaturity to maturity, still on that journey, but when I became a Christian some of the staff in the company I owned commented, ‘What’s happened to Berni? He’s a human all of a sudden’. Because I was only ever focused on the outcome and getting people to achieve that outcome.

Keith: Well again you detach from any sort of getting along with people because you’re doing your thing everybody better get along with you.

Berni: And my attitude was, well I don’t mind and you don’t matter so let’s just go and do it. Which is sad, I mean that’s the immaturity right?

Keith: Oh it’s terribly sad. Dictators.

Berni: Absolutely and I look back on that and sort of shudder at that level of immaturity but you don’t see it. You see it’s easy for me to talk about this personality type as opposed to the others but you don’t see it in yourself. I think that’s the problem, you don’t see your immaturity.

Keith: Because you’re achieving what you want to achieve, you’re getting what you wanted so you feel good. But you can also hit the wall too because you can over-do it. I mean you just want to do everything and so you don’t know how to stop so you keep going and going and they quite often do hit a wall and they have to actually then just stop everything.

Berni: A couple of times in my life I’ve hit a wall where I’ve been almost dysfunctional for six months. Just haven’t been able to do anything. Just hit, completely burnt out.

Keith: Yes they do get burnt out and they do take on a lot of risk, they’re very risky people. I often think those who climb the mountains where people die, Mount Everest or base jumpers.

Berni: Why would you do that type of thing?

Keith: Why would you do that? I think that way but they like the challenge, they’re challengers, they challenge life, they don’t sit by and see it go by.

Berni: Yeah, absolutely. So there are some good parts in that but the bad part is they can become domineering.

Keith: Yes.

Berni: And they can burn out because they can’t say no.

Keith: That’s right.

Berni: Okay that’s the down side, how do they move from that down side, that level of immaturity to an up side?

Keith: Well the up side is, the button that they push is use their strong will, all that strength that they know that they have to help others. So like a giver goes out and will help others as they realise that hey, I can do something for somebody else, it’s easy for me as it’s hard for most other people or they see somebody not taking action they can actually say, ‘Look why don’t we do this?’ They can actually motivate them to do something.

So if they get with other people who need help and because you’re a leader so people do need help, you can actually lead them through their problems.

Berni: It’s funny you know, Jesus says that it’s more blessed to give than to receive and when we become givers of ourselves we kind of think we’re going to lose something but the thing that I’ve discovered in the last fifteen years is that that’s what actually makes you feel good.

It’s being, it’s giving of yourself to other people, serving other people with who you are and that’s why I do what I do, it’s not that I’m a great guy, I’m not, I just figured out that Jesus was right, that it actually feels better to use my strength for other people than to get my way.

Keith: But also in projects, can you imagine when they built the wall of Jerusalem, they had a leader saying we must do it, come on we can do it and they did it in record time. That’s what we need, we can’t procrastinate about it, they can mobilise the team, they can encourage them, they can get them doing it. They achieve something through action, that this is good, they use it in a good way not in a selfish way.

Berni: It’s interesting when you and I wrote that book together not so long ago, I mean you had the knowledge and content of our personality types but as a teacher not the ability to drive that forward. When we got together I didn’t have the knowledge or the content but I had the umph to go and do it, we couldn’t have done it apart.

Keith: No.

Berni: I couldn’t have done it, you couldn’t have done it, it was when we did it together that we were able to do that.

Keith: And that’s part of the body.

Berni: It’s really exciting. So the button the leader has to push to move from immaturity to maturity is what?

Keith: Is use their strength for good by actually connecting with other people.

Berni: And using it to serve other people.

Keith: Yes.

Berni: And let me say from experience as now, as someone who’s addicted to the good feeling that gives you, it is a really good feeling, really, really good feeling. Jesus was right, shock horror. Jesus was actually right; it is more blessed to give than to receive.

Keith it’s been a fabulous couple of weeks. Thank you so much for spending this time with us on the program.

Keith: It’s been great Berni.

Berni: Bless you mate.